Sports reporter Andy Stevenson speaks about disability and covering live events, in the latest episode of the Level Playing Field Podcast.
Andy will be familiar to many for his coverage across a range of sports, from his recent commentary of the Olympic ski jumping for BBC sport, ahead of trip to broadcast at the Paralympics, or major domestic events like Wimbledon and The Open, to his regular appearances on Radio 5 Live and Final Score.
In the episode, Andy talks honestly to Level Playing Field’s head of fan engagement and supporter services, Liam Bird, about access barriers in stadiums, learning when to ask for support, visibility on screen, and dealing with online abuse.
The conversation also explores why access and inclusion in sport still matters, and Andy’s advice for disabled people who want to work in journalism.
Andy has proactively been working with Level Playing Field to inform clubs on inclusion for disabled members of the media and recently delivered an online talk to disability access officers and other club staff. To find out more about sessions like this, please get in touch with the charity.
This episode was recorded live at the Select Car Leasing Stadium and our thanks go to the staff at Reading for hosting us.
The podcast episode can be found here, or via your chosen podcast platform and the full transcript is available below.
Liam: Welcome to the Level Playing Field podcast. My name is Liam Bird and I am the head of fan engagement and supporter services at the charity Level Playing Field. Today’s episode was recorded in person at Reading Football Club. So a big thank you to them for hosting us and giving us a space to record in the press box. In this episode I’m joined by sports journalist Andy Stevenson, who you might be listening to right now on the BBC coverage of the Winter Olympics that is now underway in Italy. In this conversation I speak to Andy about his journey through sport, growing up, watching it and playing it, his love of sport as a fan, and how those experiences shaped his path into sports media. We also get into what it’s like working across mainstream and Paralympic sports sport, navigating press and broadcast environments as a disabled journalist, and the realities of visibility, pressure and access in sports media. Relax and enjoy this conversation with Andy Stevenson. Andy, how are you?
Andy: I’m very well. Thanks very much for having me.
Liam: Thank you for doing this. We are in kind of like your old stomping ground, right?
Andy: Yeah, in a sense this is where it all began actually for me, to a certain extent I got involved in student radio and then went off and did a couple of different qualifications. But the place I started doing radio really certainly professionally was, BBC Radio Berkshire and Reading were and still are our, our only football team on Radio Berkshire. So we loved them greatly and I was there, very lucky to be there during a time of great success because I was at radio Berkshire from 2004 to 2009. So I was here for the first record breaking history making, ah, promotion to the Premier League under Steve Koppel. So yes, it’s, it’s lovely to be here for this chat.
Liam: Noel Hunt. Paul Kitson. They’re the people who come straight to mind.
Andy: Yeah. So I mean like, on a Friday night we would have our football phone in and we would still. I don’t know if this, this actually still happens or not, but you know, you’re talking nearly 20 years ago we would have a player come into the studio on a Friday night and that was always actually pretty exciting. I remember Kevin Doyle coming in. Do you remember Kevin Doyle? Shane Long? those two were bought from Cork City if I remember rightly. And they were two young Irish lads and I remember sitting as close to Shane Long as I am to you now when he first came in on his first football phone and on a Friday night and he’s what, 18 or something? And I remember sitting there thinking, you’ve Got the world at your feet, you know, and kind of happened for him. I, you know, I don’t think he became a super superstar, but he had a Premier League career and he won lots of international caps and. But yeah, just that kind of access you get at, local radio level, which is increasingly hard to get. So, again, it’s something I look back on with fondness.
Liam: We’re speaking today as part of a series of talking to predominant disabled people within, the spotlight of media sport. You’re going over very, very soon over to Milan for the Winter Olympics. Hot take. I believe that the Winter Olympics is better than the Summer Olympics. I don’t know if that’s just me being a hipster. How do you feel? How do you feel? What’s your take on?
Andy: Certainly lots to get into and I think almost like the unfamiliarity of, of the sports is actually what gives it, you know, that added, like, curiosity and, and, and an interest. so, yeah, for the Winter Olympics, I’m actually in Manchester. I’m not in Milan. I’m doing the ski jumping commentary for the first time, which I’m looking forward to. But then, for the Paralympics, I’m. I’m over in Italy, up in the mountains in Cortina, covering snowboarding and. Which is hipster enough, I think, isn’t it? Snowboarding and the curling. Yeah, and that’s for, American television and working for Paralympics. But, yeah, really looking forward to that. I mean, it takes me away from football for quite, quite a while. You know, I’m looking at some of the fiction and going, oh, I would have loved to have been at that one.
Liam: But, it depends on who your team is as well if you’re taking away from the football. As a forest fan, I think I’ll be quite happy just going away for quite a long time. If you’re comfortable, if you can explain your disability, to the people listening, that’d be grand.
Andy: Well, I was born a tremendously long time ago. I was born with no hands, very short arms. My arms come down only really above, above elbow level. So no elbow, no forearm, no hands. My left leg also, when I was born, only came down to above knee level. So I wear a prosthetic leg, for that. Interestingly, my. I say interestingly, my. The leg I was born with actually has a foot on it already. I was born with a foot, and the foot is points straight down. Often people in this situation, when they’re born, the foot will be, you know, angled like A. An ordinary foot, and the person would have to have surgery to straighten it, but I was born with that foot already pointing down. And so I’ve worn a prosthetic leg since I was about 4, I think, and I have a slight curvature of the spine as well. I wore a kind of brace jacket type thing until I was about 13 or 14, I think. And touchwood that kept my spine straight enough that I didn’t need, spinal surgery, thank God, because I remember that was actually something that kind of frightened me for my whole childhood, if I’m being honest. I was dreading that moment. So, thankfully I, I avoided that. You know, I think, and I’m sure you’ve spoken to, to lots of people in this situation, because I was born like this. I. And I see it with my own son now picking things up. You know, he doesn’t have a disability, but, you see how babies and toddlers learn to do things. And I learned to just do things with my feet, you know, and I learned to scoot around on my bum as a toddler rather than walk. And. And then as I got older, I kind of learned, how to do things with my arms or with my toes. And so still to this day, you know, I use my feet to type on a laptop. I use my feet to write. I used prosthetic arms for a little bit when I was a child, but actually now, since. Since my teenage years and through adulthood, I’ve got by without them. and interestingly, my revolutionary invention, if you like, is just using, a tennis kind of wristband that a player would wear on their wrist and mop their brow with. I wear that round around the arm that I, you know, that I do have, and that holds a pen or a fork or, you know, paintbrush, you know, whatever it might be. and that’s how I, that’s how I write in a. In a work setting. You know, I can’t sit here and say it’s easy, but certainly, because I was born with the disabilities I have, I have just learned different ways of doing things. And that is still very much the case when it comes to my job as well.
Liam: You kind of very cruelly said about your age, you’re not that old for the tape. How has your mentality with your disability changed over the years? Like, have you. Was an element of, like, kind of resentment against your disability. And then you kind of, as you get older, as most of us get older, we kind of get more, kind of come to terms with life and the hands we’ve been dealt and things like that.
Andy: I think the most important thing to say on that is that I’ve been incredibly lucky to have, you know, very loving family. So starting with my, my parents and my sister growing up and extended family at that point. And then latterly, my wife, and even my son who’s very young, but he’s sort of just showing signs of noticing things or just he’s getting used to where to pass things to me and stuff like that. So family have always been incredibly supportive. I’ve always had brilliant friends right through school. You know, my best friends now were my best friends at school, which again is quite unusual, you know, in a work setting. Colleagues and bosses have always been very supportive and help where they can. So I think having that supportive framework around me means that those moments of resentment or upset or depression or all of those sort of negative emotions have just, they’ve come and they’ve quite quickly gone. You know, I don’t think I’ve ever had a really serious spell where I’ve been like down about things. You know, I’ve always been. My parents passed on a very sort of positive kind of can do attitude and, and give, give something a go. And yeah, you know, listen, listen, there are still things that will crop up now and I’ll go, oh, if only I could do X, you know, life would be so much easier. And also, and I’m sure this will chime with a lot of disabled people listening. It’s not so much the thing you can’t do. It’s like the fights you have to have to, to the kind of administrative fights you have to have about, you know, personal independence, payment and you know, your motability car potentially and just other things that access to work is a big one for me. It’s, you know, it feels like a bit of a constant struggle sometimes just to maintain the kind of level you’re at in terms of support. So those are the things now which bother me a lot more, I would say way more than that feeling of, oh, God, I wish I could do this. You know, in general things, you know, I, I have got used to. I’m. I’m at a position where I know how I do things now. And there are very few things that come up where it’s, it’s a real, there’s a real barrier except for those like administrative things.
Liam: The reason I asked that question is because for this year’s Unite for Access campaign, we’re focusing on people who become disabled later in Life So I, my, myself I became disabled later in life and what I found was like there was a period of time of frustration of why, like why is this happening to me? And like it’s a very selfish way of seeing things. But I’ve now been living with my disability for about four or five years and I’ve come to terms with it now and I, I know my limitations and I know what I can and can’t do. but there was always that beginning of oh, my part and what I really loved about my life has now changed massively. And it’s interesting you spoke about being born with your disability and you just got on with life because that’s what happens isn’t you just get on with life. So I think it’s quite interesting position whereabouts for this year’s campaign. Now spotlight will be on those people who probably will have had some element of resentment at some point and then the, just a position of someone born with a disability and just getting on with it, I suppose.
Andy: Yeah, you know and I don’t want to sound patronising but actually I have a great deal of sympathy. I feel for people in your predicament that you describe where you have acquired a disability later on. And of course you know, through personal life, but particularly through my work and particularly through Paralympics, I come across so many people who have lost limbs or been paralysed or what have you, completely unexpectedly through accident, illness, et cetera. And yeah, sometimes I can’t compute how, how that must have felt because as you say, it’s entirely different to me. But we all do whatever it takes, don’t we, to, to, to get by and get over the fact that, okay, that has been taken away from me. I’m trying to find the words to describe it but I suppose I, let’s say let’s use football as an example. At school I’d play football in the playground and, and have kick abouts and stuff. But I was never picked for teams and in fairness I, I don’t mean that as criticism. I, I, I probably wouldn’t have ever been able to play in the teams I was. this is a bit of a tangent but I always felt like I was quite a good footballer in terms of technique and understanding the game, but I just didn’t have any pace or any stamina. So you’re not going to get picked for a team. You know, in a sense there were afternoons where I’d come home from school and I’d be like that’s been taken away from Me, I can’t go and play on the football team like my mates. So I’ve experienced that loss, but I’ve not experienced it in a way that say a 10 year old who loses his leg in a car accident would have, would experience that because they would have been on the team before and now suddenly they’re not. It’s actually tangibly been taken away from them. So I feel like we’re having similar feelings but just in a different context, you know. But absolutely, I do. I don’t know whether lucky is the right word, but I do consider myself relatively fortunate to have been born with my disability. You know, my disabilities would be considered severe. You know, I am a triple amputee, I have one standard limb, if you want to put it that way. But I think had I lost three limbs in an accident, people would consider it way more severe than, than having been born with parts of three limbs missing. And then maybe that’s, maybe that is a sort of a way of crystallising what I’m trying to get at here.
Liam: What is your earliest memory of sport? What was it, Was it the playground or was it on television, radio?
Andy: I’d say, I’d say lunchtime. Football in the playground is a biggie, actually. I’d go tearing around and remember I’m wearing a, late 80s NHS prosthetic leg at this point. I’d go tearing around and then I’d come in and I’d be all sweaty and my leg would be sore but I’d be out there the next day doing the same. And I remember times where it was frosty and things and elders would helped. So pull me in and say, look, sorry Andy, we can’t let you go out. Because the thing is, if I fell, I basically fell on my face. Yeah. You know, I’ve got no arms to put out to, to stop my fall. So, you know, again, looking back, my parents and teachers and things like that were, had an incredible attitude to just go, well, yeah, let him go and play football. You know, because actually they could have said, no way, you know, if he falls, he falls on his face. I’m not letting him play football ever. You know, that was important. And yeah, so in terms of early memories, definitely playground football. But actually from an early age I do remember watching football on TV and thinking, yeah, I’d like to be involved in this. And I think actually not being picked for the teams and stuff actually strengthened that feeling. Because I think the reason I am a sports journalist is because from a pretty early age I recognised I wasn’t going to be a Premier League footballer or a PGA to a golfer or whatever. How can I still be in that world? And journalism was a kind of obvious alternative route.
Liam: So was football always like your predominant sport? Was that the thing that kind of brought you into.
Andy: Yes, yes, I would say so. Not far behind actually was golf, funnily enough, because, my dad was a sort of fair weather golfer. He wasn’t playing all the time, but we would go on, family holidays to Ireland particularly, and we go to a little pitch and putt and I’d go around with dad and he would take the shots off the tee and then he’d give me his putter and I would do his putts. And then as I got a bit older and a bit taller, we had a, I think it was like a seven iron made for me. And so then I’d go around and play all the shots, alongside Dad’s and then I could go to a pitch and putt. So, with, with friends, it got to a point there where I had like a few clubs made and it, it was just, again, it was like participation. It wasn’t like, I’m not going to be the best golfer ever, but I’m going to be able to play. And the beauty of golf is with, you know, once you get to an age where you’re sort of playing properly in inverted commas, the handicap system sort of levels everything out. So off the tee I wouldn’t hit it as far as my friends, but then I’d be quite good at putting and chipping because I’ve got no wobbly elbows or wobbly wrists. It’s all dead straight, which is kind of what you’re, you’re aiming for. so I’d pick up shots on them there and they might give me, you know, a shot a hole or something. And, you know, we’re, we’re playing and we’re competing and most importantly of all, we’re having fun. So then again, I suppose allied to that, I was then coming home and back in the day when BBC Sport had lots of live golf, you know, dad and I had sit and watch the Open or the Masters or the Ryder cup or whatever it was. Yeah, I have, I have really vivid memories of watching live football and live golf, usually with my dad. But I was watching it as much for Des Lyneham and Barry Davis and Steve Ryder and Claire Balding and John Invadale and Gabby Logan. I was watching it as much for them as for the sport. Itself I was from, I would say about maybe even like 12, 14, maybe something like that. I remember being quite conscious of all. right, I really like that presenter. M. Why do I like them? What is it that he or she is doing? I really love this commentator. How are they doing that? And so I became really quite nerdy from a young age about how sport was broadcast on particularly TV at that point. And then radio kind of came in as I got older and would listen in the car and things like that. But yeah, you know, for me the presenters and commentators and reporters were kind of almost more my heroes than the players I was watching.
Liam: Going to come to the journalism in a second. But I, I want to ask what was the first sport, live sporting event you attended?
Andy: I went to some England school boys football matches at Wembley, the old Wembley, this would have been the late 80s. I remember it being really random. I think we got on holiday to Devon or somewhere and the chairman or something, the school’s fa was staying in the same hotel. Dad got chatting to him and suddenly we had two tickets to go and sing. But I remember like Michael Owen, a 15 year old Michael Owen played in one of these matches and I’m sure actually if I went back and dug out the programmes from the garage, there’d be actually quite a few big names. But I specifically remember Michael Owen because of what he went on to do and it was great, you know, I’m sure the schoolboy football must still be out there. It’s probably a bit more like professional now than it was. but yeah, it was great, you know, an opportunity to go to Wembley, I would say that was pretty much my first. I remember going to the 1995 Coca Cola Cup Final.
Liam: Yeah.
Andy: Without giving away my allegiances here, I’ll tell you. It was Liverpool against bolton and Steve McManaman scored both goals. And so yeah, to go to a cup final I would have been about 14, I think 15, was absolutely amazing. Yeah, they’re probably like my earliest memories of like going to football.
Liam: And what was the last sporting event you went to that you paid for and didn’t go for work?
Andy: Oh wow, that’s a brilliant question.
Liam: This is whereabouts you just comped all the time.
Andy: Now that is a brilliant question, you know. Well, interesting. So I worked on the Open golf last summer at port rush for 5 live 6 years previous when it had been there in 2019, me and two mates went and we were there as spectators. So it was a nice sort of full circle moment to then be working at the last one. But it can’t be that long ago, can it? Maybe it is, maybe it is. I feel terrible. But yeah, maybe it is.
Liam: When you are obviously now working in the work that you do, you visit many sporting stadiums. Do you think that the provisions that are in place for fans at the moment, not, not journalists, do you think they are, they have moved forward to the point where you would expect as a person who has worked in this, field of sport as long as.
Andy: You have, from a fan’s perspective, I think there has been progress. And I mean, I’m not just saying this, but, you know, the work, the level playing field do is a big part of that. you know, I think you are more aware of, football clubs making an effort in this area. You know, I go to grounds where there are sensory rooms and I go to grounds where I notice that say, the, the wheelchair seating isn’t, is in a much better place than it would have been 10 years ago, for example. you know, I’ve, I’ve been at grounds obviously where, you know, your campaigns have been running and you know, disabled supporters clubs have been, you know, brought out onto the pitch, you know, pre match or half time or you feel like this area of disability and disabled people wanting to be sports fans and spectators, there is more noise around it now. Definitely from a, journalism point of view, the majority of the grounds that I go to are, still nowhere near wheelchair accessible. And I think it’s really the newer grounds and one in particular, which I’m sure I’ll mention later, but the newer grounds, it does seem to be a bit more inbuilt now, a consideration to press box accessibility. But a lot of the older grounds, you know, no way. I mean, I don’t get me wrong, I absolutely want football press boxes and just general sports stadia press boxes to be as accessible as they possibly can be. That’s, that’s a given. So what I’m about to say doesn’t contradict that. What I will say is about older grounds, some of the kind of classic grounds, if you like. They’ve got the same problem that the London Underground has, which is that they are dealing with, you know, facilities and buildings and that never really had accessibility in mind back in the early 1900s or whatever it may be. So I do, I would, I would cut some of those football clubs a bit of a break that when they say, well, we can’t just, you know, rip out the press box and put ramps and lifts in, I kind of get that. But What I would say to those clubs is, but what are you doing as an alternative? Because when you go to a, when you go to a new ground and an accessible ground, and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll mention it. I mean my wife gets so bored with me raving about the stadium. But you know, Brentford’s new stadium, you can see the thought that’s gone in at every stage there. And as a consequence, it’s by far, by far the most enjoyable experience I have going to a football club because I know that everything’s going to be straightforward and also everything is going to be done with a smile and you know, a friendly welcome, which is also vital and actually sometimes gets overlooked when people start talking about stairs and ramps and stuff. Actually also equally as important is what kind of welcome are you receiving as a disabled person in a, in a football ground?
Liam: Yeah. Eg, have they ever spoken to a disabled person ever in their life? Yeah, one of the things that I get a lot from speaking to disabled sports journalists, isn’t the fact of like how do we get into this, it’s a case of how do you network? So a lot of kind of sports stadia – you spoke about the press room, that the press rooms are part of it, but there’s also an element of where you go for lunch that’s a lot of journalists will speak to each other and let’s face it, the press world still is who you know and how you make those networks work and stuff like that. For someone who was. When they were getting into journalism, we spoke about the G Tec, the G Tech wasn’t there. Probably the most modern stadium would have been after 96.
Andy: Right.
Liam: Whereas a reinvestment in some stadiums. How did you find it? How did you find making that, that kind of transition from, okay, this is a, hobby that I want to do to. No, this is actually the career I want to have. And there are so many barriers in my place for me to even try and get to a position whereby this can be a full time career.
Andy: Yeah, that’s an interesting question. Cause I think a lot of that comes down to the attitude of the person, themselves, funnily enough, because I think certainly in my early days. So I did two things which I look back on and go, what on earth was I thinking? The first is for about the first 15 football matches I reported on for the BBC, I stubbornly tried to go by myself without any assistance, which were kind of my, kind of my own fault. or partly my own fault. I went to a League two club, got there a bit late, got there and like, the press box didn’t even have any desks, you know, everybody had stuff on their laps, you know, and. And I just can’t do that. And partly because I was late, but also because the kind of setup of the ground, my seat was like seven seats over there, if you know what I mean. And ordinarily a person might have clambered across the seats or climb. Clambered over rows to get to that seat. I can’t do that either. So I had to get this entire row who were all also broadcasting, I think it was the BBC local radio stations and stuff. I had to get them all to move for me to. For me to get to my seat. But they all had to go and like to a song on the radio so they could all, you know, take their headphones off and squeeze me, squeeze by. I get to my seat and then like, right, I don’t even have a desk now. I somehow managed to get my ISDN unit, the box we used to broadcast on, balanced on the seat next to me. And then I’m like, right, I can’t write any notes now. So I, I had to write my match notes, I. E. What I was saying on BBC television. Whenever they came to me, I had to use. I’ve got a little finger on one arm. but I had to use combination of my finger and my tongue. Would you believe to type my notes on my phone and just very quickly is brilliant. When you listen back to my halftime report on that match, I typed it all out, but it took up more than one screen of my phone. So there is a. I can tell it’s there. I don’t think that anybody else will be able to tell, but there’s this pause where I go and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And bird scored the third goal on 42 minutes. And then, and then I carried on. There’s a. Where I. A lot of those problems would have been prevented had I had somebody with me. But it took me 15 matches to drop the stubbornness of, I don’t want an assistant with me. I want to be at this match by myself and do this job by myself. 15 matches of. They weren’t all really difficult, but a lot of them were. I was always having to get somebody else to, oh, do you mind just, taking this out of the bag for me and plugging it in and blah, blah. It was always like, favours, you know, and asking people. I didn’t know, and so there was that. And I don’t think that, you know, that’s not the way necessarily to make a good impression on the other journalists around you, constantly asking them for help, if you know what I mean. it probably made me memorable in a funny way, but not ideal. And then the second thing I was doing, which I try not to do quite so much now actually, but it’s still there in the background, is going to the match, keeping my head down, not speaking to anybody else, just, you know, me and my little corner. I just need to focus entirely on my job. I’m not going to speak to any of the other commentators because they don’t know who I am and blah blah, blah, you know what I mean? And obviously over time and now with experience, when I go to matches, I probably will know the match today commentator or the talk sport person and the five live person and the local radio people, and they will know me now. So there is a more natural sort of, okay, let’s have a cup of tea and a chat in the press room before we even start doing our work. The point you’re making, which actually accessibility isn’t just about the press box where you sit and watch the match. It’s about, you know, are you going to be able to sit and have a bit of food before the match? Are you going to be able to talk to the other journalists? I see, I see now that that is actually another vital part, of the role because now I go to the match with an assistant and they take away all of that stress of how am I going to plug everything in, who’s going to carry my bag, blah, blah, blah. I can now focus just on my job, on the networking side of things, on being seen basically, you know, carving out a, reputation, I suppose. So that now when I go to a match and whether it’s I know Jonathan Pierce or Steve Wilson is there for Match of the Day, they’ll go, oh, hi, Andy, how are you? I heard you on Blah blah last week. You know, that, that is priceless. That is a feeling of belonging then. Yeah, it’s not. I think, I think for those 15 matches I did without an assistant and, and probably even for my first couple of years of doing that football report, this football reporting job, you know, imposter syndrome, and you kind of want to go in as quietly as you can, do your job and leave as quietly as you can as well. And you don’t want anybody to notice you. That’s going to hold you back, you know, you need to go in. You obviously don’t go, right, the other extreme and go in all like know it all and Bolshy and things. But, but go in and go, right, I have been hired by, let’s say five Live or whoever to cover this match. They think I’m up to this and they think I can do a good job. And then the more you do that you go, actually I’m not in an arrogant way, but just in a sort of, I am sort of doing a good job. You know, I can, I can still do better, I can always do better, but I’m doing this now. I’m not pretending. It’s that thing of like, you know, what, what, what’s your job, Andy? Oh, I’m, I’m a self employed sports reporter. I can say that with kind of conviction now. Whereas even maybe five years ago, ten years ago I would have gone, oh well, you know, I you know, I would have been a bit more like shy about it, and a bit more nervous about saying I am a sports reporter. Whereas now I can say, yeah, I’ve been doing it long enough now to say this, this, this is who I am then. Yeah.
Liam: I mean if we had more time, I would dig into the fact of like trying to keep that independence at a disabled person is really important. And, and I would say to anyone who wants to see a disabled person battling with it in real time, Rosie Jones on the last leg in Tokyo, I think it was about, she was really pushing her back about using a mobility scooter.
Andy: Yes.
Liam: And then she finally used it and she was like, why have I been battling? Like this made yes so much more easier. People can dig that out. But that, that stays in my head. Like if I ever want to tell anyone who’s non disabled or has not been around disability, it’s a great visualisation of seeing someone who truly just wants to keep their independence and sees having help as a, a letdown. But it’s not. And, and seeing that in real time, I thought it was just fascinating.
Andy: Yeah. You know, and this, this, this leads into something I think which is really important and something I still think about now is there have been suggestions in the recent past where like, oh, we’ll send a came Andy and we’ll follow you through a day and we’ll show people what you do. And I’ve always been a bit like you know, a bit nervous about that because I just want the listener or the viewer to kind of be concentrating on me in terms of how I can do My job, as I get older, I kind of think actually I do have a responsibility to show there’s probably not going to be somebody out there exactly like me, you know, missing exactly the limbs I’m missing and all of that kind of thing. But there’ll be, there’ll be somebody missing, you know, a hand or, or, or they’ll wear a prosthetic leg or something who would get some encouragement from seeing, you know, a day in the life of me at, a football match. So it’s something I’m a bit more open to now. And actually my early football reporting was virtually all radio based and now I’ve started popping up on tv and that is a big, big difference obviously because people are now seeing me.
Liam: How has the reception been from the public, from kind of going from behind the mic. What about you can be anyone you want to be and then visibly being seen on camera. There’s a cruel part of people judge you for how you look. how have you managed to deal with that landscape and the criticism, I suppose that might come with it.
Andy: So I’ve not had the kind of avalanche of negativity yet, but I’ve had little tasters of it and it wasn’t particularly nice, obviously. So the Olympics in Paris last summer or last, last summer in 24, was, was a big moment in this regard because I was an on screen reporter. So I wasn’t just a voice, I was there on camera. I was going around various different sports and doing pieces to camera, interviewing people on camera. So there was one day I woke up in Paris and I had a message from my sister and she said, oh, there’s been, there’s been a few people having a pop at you, but the reason I’m getting in touch is because somebody’s had a pop at you on, on X and then somebody else has responded to them saying, oh, back off, this guy’s a, that’s, this guy’s a hero. He was in the Marines and you know, blah, blah, blah, he was a soldier, lay off him. Yeah. And my sister was saying, you should probably, you know, stand that out. Yeah. So I, don’t know. I mean, God knows, like, I’m sort of pally with JJ Chalmers a bit and I don’t know if they’d mix me up with him, but he, you know, he has his arms, so that seems unlikely. And then Alex Brooker is a bit different to me again. But anyway, this person, had defended me because I was a soldier. So my sister was saying, like, do you Want to tell them that’s not the case. And by going on and looking for that message, then I see lots of other comments about me. So I’d been at this, this was the morning after I’d been at boxing, at the Olympics and I’d done a two way on screen with Dan Roan, BBC sport editor. And then I had, I’d had Nicola Adams with me as boxing expert and we’d done a couple of pieces about the gender rise in boxing and the Olympics and blah, blah, blah. People had put screenshots of me saying, like, how can the BBC possibly employ a boxing reporter who has no hands? And this kind of argument pops up. You know, I do present the wheelchair finals at Wimbledon every summer and again, somebody screenshotted and it ended up in one of these like Facebook humour groups. You know, I wouldn’t trust what this guy says about tennis. Like, basically because I, I can’t hold a tennis racket, I can’t play tennis anyway, of course the response to that is that I’m, I’m not the pundit, I’m not the expert. You know, I had Nicola Adams stood next to me to talk about the boxing as such. I’m there to ask the questions and you know, journalist, so it doesn’t matter whether I’ve ever been in a boxing ring before. You know, it’s completely nonsense argument. So anyway, I, there are a few of these and you know, I know that the worst thing you can possibly do is respond to individuals. Who knows if they’re real people or bots or whatever, but the last thing you want is to get into a rat. But I wanted to say something so I called my agent and I said, look, I do want to put a, tweet out myself. I want these people to know that I have seen what they’ve said. I don’t know, you know, whether, you know, you understand that mentality straight away or it’s, there’s, there’s, there’s a feeling of, I just want you to know I’ve seen that. I don’t want you to think that you’re making jokes about me behind my back and sort of getting away with it, if you know what I mean. So I put a tweet out and it’s still up there now. And I said, I posted a photo of me with Nicola Adams and blah, blah, blah, and I said, for all of the people appalled and dismayed and upset that the BBC have hired a boxing reporter with no arms. Those people will fall off their sofas when they hear that. I also do golf and tennis and I’m a football reporter and I have a prosthetic leg. Right. I expected maybe seven people to see this. It was my first and only experience of something going viral in that sense, in that, by 24 hours later, I think it was up to, like, 800,000 views. Here’s an example of more modern journalism. The Mail Online created an entire article around that tweet and other photos they could troll from my social media. So the Mail Online headline was, BBC Armless Reporter. Ah, Slams trolls. Right, yeah. Within minutes of that appearing, the same cut and paste article is then appearing on Lad Bible. I remember my wife messaging me going, my God, you’re on Lad Bible, you know, like, you’re the least laddie, you know? And it was an express website and all of these publications just copy and paste from each other. And it went mad. I mean, it went genuinely mad. It’s the only time I’ve experienced, like, my phone just kind of blowing up with notifications and I got a call, albeit from somebody I used to work with. It wasn’t kind of completely out of the blue, but they now worked on Good Morning Britain and they said, we’d love you on the sofa on Monday morning when you get home from Paris to talk about this. And I said, no. I said, look, I don’t want this to become the storey, as such. I. I wanted to say something. I’m happy that I’ve said something. I’m kind of a bit embarrassed that it’s ended up now in, you know, the tabloid press, as it were. But in a sense, I’m still happy with what I’ve said, but I don’t want to now spend days and days and days talking about the troll’s response, because I want to just carry on doing my job. As it happens, I’ve still got another four days of sport here, but, you know, I just want to be able to. And I don’t want the next time I appear, you know, tonight, tomorrow night, I don’t want people seeing me on tv and all they can think about is, oh, this is the guy who. The trolls have been a. You know, and then I come into football and I don’t appear on screen on football a lot, but it. But, you know, a few times a season. Interestingly, you know, if you look at the. The framing, as we call it, on Final Score or Soccer Saturday or wherever, it tends to be quite tight. It’s almost head and shoulders anyway, so there have been there have been occasions where I can tell. Oh, you can, you know, you can see I’ve got no arms. But actually somebody watching and certainly somebody with it casually on, in the background might not spot that. but occasionally people have. And again, what I found with the, with the football trolls is they kind of, they put me together with their, ah, dislike for other minority groups doing football, namely or most notably women. You know, there are a group of people out there who still can’t accept, for some insane reason, they can’t accept being told about a football match by a woman.
Liam: Say his name. Joey Barton.
Andy: Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, not many more. I’ll come back to him in a sec. So the trolls in football will tend to be, oh, look at this, woke BBC, Final score, have got a disabled guy and a woman on screen. It’s just so tiresome, you know, and, but when I say I haven’t had like, the big explosion of it is that I have not been in a prominent enough on screen role with say, BBC Football for like the football troll world to go nuts. Yeah. So far it’s only been isolated individual, apart from the Olympic thing. But, on football it’s only been isolated people. And yeah, you mentioned Joe Barton. I mean, you know, he and others I know would, would come for me if they noticed me. Yeah. At the moment they’ve not noticed me. But, you know, I’m, I’m ready for it if, you know, and in some ways, if it happens, it will be a sign that my career has gone the way it has because I’ll be, you know, I want to be, I want to be prominent, I want to be kind of known. So I know it’s been a long answer, but just it ties back to this thing of do I then feel comfortable having a film crew following me for a day to show, oh, look at this guy in our arms being a football reporter, it’s amazing. Am I comfortable with that? Because it kind of takes me out of just getting on with the job. Yeah. If you know what I mean. So it’s, it’s a tricky one because at the same time I do see the benefit of doing it and the help and the encouragement it might offer other disabled reporters. But hopefully those other disabled reporters kind of know I’m there and take enough encouragement from me just being there. Yeah. I mean, they don’t need to see how I take my notepad out of my bag. They just need to hear and see me doing my job.
Liam: You know, I was rudely rambling on my, on my Laptop to try and find the name, because I want to say properly, the HLTCO podcast – he came out publicly as having a disability after many years of doing a blog. And then it’s interesting to see actually the Bartons of this world actually now target him because he has, because he has, a disability and he’s very prominent within palace and, that he’s gone sky and spoke about football. And it is that mentality of, well, how can you know about football if you’ve never played football?
Andy: Yes, yes. Yeah.
Liam: But he doesn’t target that at many thousands of other people who will sit in front of their laptop, talk football like that. That isn’t there. But I am interested to know that now you’ve kind of had that kind of, correspondence with those trolls. Do you feel more pressure as a disabled person to have to nail it every time?
Andy: Oh, yeah, yeah, that, that is, that’s something I’m conscious of, that the trolls have appeared and kind of made their comments, but fortunately it’s not coincided with me making a cock up, you know, on that, on that Boxing night, if I had also made a really obvious error or pronounced somebody’s name wrong or blah, blah, blah, I think the troll’s reaction would have been worse. No doubt about that. And again, sadly, you see that with still. I mean, it’s bonkers, but you still see that with female reporters and commentators around football, if they make a mistake, and we make mistakes all the time, by the way, but if they make a mistake, it’s. It’s picked upon far worse than it would be if a man did the same thing. And I know that, yeah, I do know it’d be the same for me. So clearly, if that was on my mind the whole time, it would be like paralysing. So I do try to just push that away as much as possible at some point. Yeah. There may well come a time where I am, on camera and I make a real gaffe and I’m absolutely hammered for it. Well, we shouldn’t have to have a thick skin. But you do have to have a thick skin. We shouldn’t have to. And ultimately you have to kind of go home and think, well, at least, you know, I am still. I’m doing what I’m doing. Sorry, I’m doing what I want to be doing, what I’ve always wanted to be doing. So that’s your. If I can say that, sort of like your two fingers up to the trolls is actually, I’m doing this and you’re not.
Liam: So I want to touch on the element of journalism that may not get spoken about and, and that is internal misconception of disabled people. So as a disabled person, do you feel you’ve had to battle your battles that probably you shouldn’t have had to fight? So just to be taken seriously, just to be seen as a journalist and not a disabled journalist?
Andy: Yes and no. I think again, it’s, it’s time and experience. But certainly in, in the early days of doing this, of course some people would do a bit of a double take seeing me in, a football press box. I’ve had a football manager, I won’t name him because I didn’t consider this a nasty thing. You know, some people might be like, oh, that was horrible for him to do. But I started a post match interview with a football manager and he started his first answer and he went, actually, hold on, hold on. So stop, stop. What’s going on here then? What’s the storey here? I think he said, but he didn’t, but he wasn’t being like, you shouldn’t be here. He was just like, sorry, it’s bugging me, you know, I can’t think of my answer because I’m just, what’s the storey here? Kind of. And I said, oh, yeah, you know, I was born like this but, always wanted to be a sports reporter and here I am. So I think, oh, great, great, great. And, and he said, you, you, you manage, you manage well. And everything I say, yeah, well. And I, and I said, which is always kind of my default thing to sort of prove to people that I can do stuff is I said, I’ve got an adaptive car, you know.
Liam: He was like, whoa.
Andy: He was really taken about. And he said, oh. And then he made a joke, he said, oh, you might be able to drive the team bus home for us or whatever. Anyway, let’s, let’s, let’s carry on. And we carried on. Some people would have taken great offence at that conversation, but I actually saw it as sort of fair enough. He’s had a bit of a question mark in his mind and he’s asked me and it’s fine, you know, but I, I do appreciate a different disabled person would not have reacted like I did. So they may have told him to sort of get lost and like, mind your own business type thing or. But I found it just that sort of. I kind of like a, sense of openness, you know, you be open with me, I’ll be open with you. And it was fine. But it does typify the fact that clearly people are not used to seeing people who look like me in their press boxes or on TV or whatever. I do get that, you know, I do. If I was watching Final Score and suddenly a reporter in a wheelchair popped up, I would go, oof, that’s, that’s unusual. I would possibly even go, oh, this, this takes a little bit of getting used to because it might be, for example, that they’re not in, they’re in a kind of press box. They might be down on the touch line because they can’t be in a press. So again, it will look different and you go, oh, okay, this is. But then quite quickly I’d move on to, this is great to see. And again, not in a patronising way, but well done to that person, like fair play for getting through to that stage, if you know what I mean. And then I’d immediately want to go and look them up and who are they and that, you know, what they, how they got to this point and, am I going to bump into them at M A match, do you know what I mean?
Liam: I suppose that’s why visibility is so important.
Andy: It’s massively important. And again, this is why, I suppose in a way I, when I am on screen, I should sort of be there in like short sleeve, you know, I should really be making. Hitting people between the eyes with the fact time to say we’ve got no arms. yeah, but there’s just that still layer of sort of self protection or maybe even selfishness of. But I don’t want that to be the only thing that they’re thinking about, you know, and, and I don’t, I’ve. I don’t quite know how to square that because at some point I suppose I’ll just have to go, well, if I want to be seen as somebody who’s helping, like the next generations, I’ve got to be seen, you know, my disability has got to be seen and stop hiding it away. And, and actually, interestingly, when I go and work on Paralympics on camera, all of that goes out the window. I don’t mind my disability being seen on, on camera at a Paralympics because there’s this subconscious feeling of, well, this is, this is how it should be. This feels. Right? Yeah.
Liam: People are watching because they know some people have a disability. Yeah.
Andy: And I’m sure as I get older, how I feel about things will change again subtly. And then, you know, obviously, hopefully not for a long time, but as and when my career comes to an end, I could see myself actually sort of throwing myself into trying to get more disabled. Do you know what I mean? It’s not because I don’t want them to take my job. I’m trying so hard to do my own job at the moment that there’s not the capacity for it. Don’t get me wrong, I do help people here and there, but I could really see myself wanting to make a big, big difference once my own career is kind of coming to an end.
Liam: Yeah, yeah, we’re going to start wrapping up now, but I am going to kind of ask a selfish question, because Level Playing Field’s Unite For Access is coming up for people who might not know Unite For Access is whereabouts we celebrate great access and inclusion within live sport. You’re a person who’s been around the block in journalism and sport and you would have seen actions like this either through her game to, kick it out. How do you view these kind of activities? Do you think they have an impact? Do you think they are something that is needed within football? Because there is an element now of kind of football turning its back on the idea of being told that we should look. I mean, rainbow laces have been binned for this season. How do you feel about that as a disabled person? And particularly for an organisation like Level Playing Field, who’s trying to put a spotlight on disability for a huge audience whereabouts the majority of them won’t have a disability.
Andy: It’s vital because it seeps through every element of. Of going to a sporting fixture. Any. Any disabled person who generates a love of sport, however. However that comes about should feel, well, more than able. they should feel like they can go and watch their team play home or away, by the way. That’s another thing. And have as great a time as, you know, the person stood next to them who doesn’t have a disability, they should feel as though they are as much a part of that team’s fan network as anybody else. When I’ve been at matches and seen Unite for Access, things happening around the ground and the brilliant film that was shown, which I believe I’m right in saying was about some of the attitudes that people have received from other people in the crowd, which is similar to the trolls discussion we’ve been having. I remember that film stopped me in my tracks and I watched it, but quite pleasingly, there were lots of other people. I was watching the crowd, as you do. And often when there’s the sort of halftime crossbar challenge, people aren’t really taking it in. But the film on the big screen actually did stop quite a few people and, and they were watching it sometimes or certainly years ago, you might see a disabled child as a mascot, you know, or you might see the football team typically, you know, they go and do hospital visits and things, which is absolutely lovely. I’m not speaking against it necessary, but it’s just the only interaction with a disabled person from a football club would be either if they hired a child as a mascot or went on a hospital visit, you know, and they were quite performative actions, you know, oh, look at this disabled. But, you know, look at this disabled person. We’ve given the absolute honour of walking out with the captain and stuff and you know, which is, don’t get me wrong, they are in the right spirit. These are lovely gestures but what else is the club doing? Meaningful.
Liam: And I think, yeah, next Saturday they’re not welcome.
Andy: That’s it. Yeah. They’ve got nowhere to sit. Next Saturday. Yeah, or whatever. There’s no disabled toilet in the ground, there’s no changing places, toilet in the ground, that kind of thing. There’s no parking spot outside or no provisions been made, that kind of thing. That’s, I think, the difference that Level Playing Field’ss work has been making, which is to say, like, it’s not just about these sort of token gestures, it’s about across the board. What are you actually doing to consider a large proportion of your audience. By the way, that’s the other thing as well, isn’t it? I know various statistics are, ah, batted around and the number seems to change all the time, but, you know, we are dealing with a significant proportion of the country has a disability of some kind and then when you widen out to like the loved ones of those people, the friends of those people, the people who will be going to the football match, you know, you’re talking like thousands and thousands of people at any Premier League ground will disability will be a factor in their lives. and what are you doing to acknowledge that and to support them, to be supporters of your team, you know.
Liam: And that’s where anyone. When you’re talking about disability, if I’m talking to a room of people who don’t have knowledge of disability, the first thing I say is like, good access is good access. Like if you, if you make your stadium as accessible as possible, that is going to benefit everyone, not just disabled.
Andy: Yeah.
Liam: Like the fanbase is getting older and they may not consider those people to have a disability, but they’re going to get like, slower mobility is going to get harder for them, they’re just not going to come if your stadium’s just not accessible.
Andy: I’m really glad you said that because it’s a reminder that is so important because if things, again, just bring it back to my world of the press box. If you make a press box accessible for me, it’s also more accessible for, let’s say, a pregnant reporter. A, reporter who happens to just like, twist their ankle three days before the match and is on crutches. An older person, you know, like football journalism is still actually quite an older person’s game as well. That’s the other thing. So there’s a whole world of things that you’re improving for lots of people, not just for me. If you put in a lift or a wide desk, a chair that you can change the legroom on and stood, you know, I mean, it’s, it’s. Yeah, I’m really relieved you brought that up because it’s, it’s a huge thing that this misconception that accessibility is, is purely for disabled people. It’s absolutely not.
Liam: I was going to finish up with the obvious question of what advice do you have for any disabled person who wants to get into journalism? but before I ask that obvious question, is there anything you want to hit on that we haven’t really spoken about?
Andy: No, I don’t think so. I think, I think we’ve covered quite a few, quite a few bases there. I think. I guess maybe one other thing to mention in line with, with the film is that, obviously one of the big issues, just like language and abuse, somehow that needs to stop. You know, everybody needs to be, everybody needs to feel comfortable when they go to a football match. And actually some of these clubs that now, I think it’s pretty quite widespread, but, you know, you can text.
Liam: Don’t get me started on texting. There’s no signal, there’s no sporting stadiums. So why are we still relying on texting as the main point of let’s bring discrimination to an end. But you can’t text it.
Andy: I see. Well, okay, that is a – there’s visibility, the act of you being able to dob somebody in without risking getting yourself punished, I think is successful one, minus the technology behind it. Yeah.
Liam: Thinking about journalism, you must get asked a lot, either on social media, people find you on LinkedIn or whatever to save yourself having to copy and paste. Like, what, what, what is it? What, what advice is it for A disabled person. Because obviously this is a very broad question, because disability is different. But if you were. If you were talking to someone who has, maybe a physical disability, let’s use that as an example. How would you say these are the things that you can do and these are the things that are kind of out of your control. So ask for it. Don’t do what you do. You did for a few years, like, just get by.
Andy: The first thing I’d say is, you can absolutely do it. That there’s no question about that. You know, if you have the passion and the knowledge and the interest in being a sports reporter, you can do it. The biggest piece of advice, as you say, would be don’t copy my mistakes early on. If you need help and support, ask for it from day one. Don’t try and be the hero. Because I do look back and wonder, had I had assistance from day one, whether things would have taken off for me a bit quicker than they have. and actually, sometimes when you ask, you know, we all do this, we build up the ask to be, oh, God, it’s going to be embarrassing. You know, I’m even sure my boss realises I can’t carry my own bag or whatever. But, you know, but the thought of asking is bigger than the actual ask itself. And this is where I would say, being completely honest, you need to have a, bit of luck on your side as well, in terms of the people you deal with. It will make a huge difference to you. If, you know, if you’re asking for this support and you get a positive response back and you have people in your corner to go, yeah, this guy’s good. There might be some hurdles that we need to cross, but he’s good and we need to work with him. So that now, for example, when it’s decided what match I’m going to, the team in, typically in Manchester with the BBC, will contact the football club. I’m going to. Okay, you know, Andy’s coming to your match on Saturday. he’ll need his usual disabled parking spot. He’ll have his assistant with him. He’ll need accreditation. They’ll need. Sit together at the. I mean, with. With a lot of clubs now, it’s just like, Andy’s coming, just do the usual. But with a new club, it would be all this, you know, parking, assistant, assistant, accreditation. Ideally, can they sit on the end of a row in case, like, they need to go out, you know, to the loo or if there’s a fire or something, you know, his assistant will be, like, getting him food, if that’s okay. Might bring it out, bring food out onto the gantry, blah, blah, blah. And so, like, the system is in place. M. And so I don’t really have to ask for things anymore because everybody involved kind of knows what I need now. And so it’s just we’re booking Andy for this match, which means we’re gonna have to send a couple of extra emails to the club to ask for things and it’s accepted. And the idea of that, however many years ago, when I started, when I did my 15 matches without any assistance whatsoever, I didn’t ask any questions, didn’t ask for any help. The idea of this scenario, now that I’ve got, would have. I wouldn’t have believed that it would. Was possible. I would have been so embarrassed. Oh, no, you can’t. You can’t ask the club for. I can’t take somebody else with me that’s taking up a second seat in the press box. Oh, you can’t ask for a disabled parking spot. You know, you can, you can and you should. And, you know, in my case, that’s the only way I can be doing my job. You will also need a bit of luck with the support you get, like, externally, because that assistant is currently paid for by access to work. And if you’re familiar with access to work, you’ll know that, you know, there’s a whole host of concerns about the way access to work is going. So what do I do if my access to work funding is taken away? That’s like the next hurdle I’ve got to cross. So don’t get me wrong, you know, it’s not going to be easy and you are going to need support from various people. But my message would be, you absolutely can do it, and you’ll be able to do it just as well, if not better than lots of other people, and you’ll be judged on your merits and, you know, go for it. And, you know, I am always available to, you know, do contact me. Really want to get to a point where I’m. Every match I go to. I’m not the only disabled person in the press box. I would love to see. I would love to see you there alongside me.
Liam: Thank you to Andy for giving up his time and chatting with me. we’ll be back soon enough with another episode of the Level Podcast Playing Field Podcast. If you like to get in contact with Level Playing Field, you can do so by emailing infoevelplayingfield.org or you can find us across social media. Until next time, if you’re going atch a live sporting event, I hope it’s a good one. Till next time, bye.